Number: 988

Date:  4-May-84 13':39':06

Submitter: Sannella.PA

Source: Feuerman.PASA

Subject: Document release procedure for internal users

Lisp Version: 

Description: '
Date': 17 Apr 84 11':22':26 PST (Tuesday)'
From': Feuerman.PASA'
Subject': Interlisp-D releases'
To': LispSupport.pa'
cc': , Feuerman'
'
I know this is going to open up a large can of worms, but I think it''s something that should be discussed.'
'
What is the official procedure regarding releases?  No one has actually sat me down at any point and told me what is done to release a new version of Interlisp-D, and I certainly can''t figure it out from what is being done.  What seems to be happening now, is that every two months or so a message is sent out to LispFriends or LispUsers announcing a "new" release.  It is usually located on one of several possible directories, such as <Lisp>current>, or <lispcore>current>, or what have you.  It is difficult to tell if one is to immediately start using the new release, or wait for some initial period of debugging.'
'
The problem here is that invariably, all of the old programs that we''ve written in a previous release have minor bugs as a result of new features and implementations.  This is reasonable to expect to some degree, except that since it seems to occur every two months or so, it makes it difficult to work on new programs because most of my time seems to be spent on debugging the old ones.'
'
It has gotten to the point that I cannot guarantee anything I''ve done in the past will work, because I''m not always sure which release I can get my hands on and how much is compatible.  To give you an example of how disorganized things seem to be, on ROSEBOWL alone there are 6 different sysouts':'
'
<LISP>CAROL '
  FULL.SYSOUT!1             2994688 25-Feb-84 17':30':01 PST'
  lisp.sysout!1             2659328 13-Mar-84 17':32':56 PST'
<LISP>Current '
  DrawDemo.sysout!1         3828736 22-Sep-83 18':04':49 PDT'
  Lisp.Sysout!1             2490368 14-Nov-83 17':04':11 PST'
<LISP>fugue6 '
  lisp.sysout!1             2648064 10-Apr-84 18':17':04 PST'
<LISP>SPARE '
  LISP.SYSOUT!1             2634240 30-Mar-84 16':56':29 PST'
 Total of 6 files'
'
The dates I believe are creation dates.  Which one am I supposed to be using to develope my applications programs?'
'
Is a system being used that I''m just not catching on to?  I would appreciate any comments about this, so I know what I should do.'
'
--Ken.'
'
-----'
'
Date': 17 APR 84 21':20 PST'
From': MASINTER.PA'
Subject': re': Interlisp-D releases'
To':   Feuerman.pasa'
cc':   LisPSupport, Raim.pasa, Sannella'
'
Ken,'
'
There are a couple of things lending to the confusion here':'
'
a) there are two distribution lists for internal Xerox users':'
'
    LispUsers^ -- the ''general public'''
    LispFriends^ -- people willing to'
		use half-baked software'
		in exchange for access'
		to rapid turn-around on '
		bugs (fixing old ones and'
		introducing new ones.)'
'
'
The ''truth copy'' of systems for internal Xerox use reside on Phylum. Releases for the ''general public'' are stored on [Phylum]<Lisp>Current>. New releases have taken place on the average of once every three or four months.'
'
on [Phylum]<LispCore>Next> is the current ''test'' version of whatever LispCore^ has cooked up. There is generally a new one of these every 3 or 4 days, it is in various states of disrepair, features get added and then taken away. Occasionally when something spiffy gets added or a feature that we''d like comment on, we''ll send out a message to LispFriends^.PA.'
'
If frequent change is just getting in your way, then you should be careful to either ignore the messages directed at LispFriends^ or take yourself off the distribution list. (You can still be our friend without being on the list.)'
'
Now': compounding the problem is that we''ve generally tried to delegate the responsibility for keeping ''remote'' file servers other than Phylum up to date to a ''local administrator''. However, geneerally because of a lack of file space, directories, etc. on [Rose], there hasn''t been a lot free space on Rose.'
'
The 1100Support group needs to keep track of its Customer releases and keep back archival copies too. Customer releases may differ in name and date from the Internal Xerox releases. '
'
Unfortunately (I think just because it wasn''t recognized as a problem), the current Customer release on Rose was stored as [rose]<Lisp>Current> --- even though that sysout was DIFFERENT than [phylum]<Lisp>Current>.'
'
Marty has promised to straighten out the situation on Rose once the current release is out the door and when there is more space on Rose. I think the appropriate situation is to create a SEPARATE DIRECTORY on rose which contains the CUSTOMER RELEASE files, in whatever versions are still in use in the field and supported. <LispCustomer> or some such.'
'
Perhaps given that [Rose] is also in use by Vista etc. it would make sense to separate out the job of ''Internal Xerox Site'' administrator from ''1100Support file administrator''.'
'
The ''Internal Xerox Site'' administrator''s job would be to keep [Rose]<Lisp> exactly in sync with [phylum]<Lisp>.'
'
After that long lead-in, I''d propose that YOU take on that job (once the <LispCustomer> directory and files are set up and its clear that [Rose]<Lisp> has the InternalXerox versions and [Rose]<LispCustomer> has the customer release versions.)'
'
I have the feeling that I''ve said the same thing several times in this message -- I''m typing on my 8-line TRS-80 Model 100.'
'
Michael (as LispSupport)': Back a year or two ago, LispSupport (i.e., me) actually did all of the updating (using Brownie) of all of the <Lisp> directories in the internal xerox internet as part of the release. (Also <LispUsers>).'
'
It lessened the chance of our getting bug reports from out of date old versions of Interlisp-D. Another way of working it is to OFFER to perform this service for any IFS that wants it. It probably wouldn''t add to much to the burden of the release as long as the Brownie scripts were kept up to date.'
'
What do you think?'
'
-----'
'
Date': 18 Apr 84 11':22':02 PST (Wednesday)'
From': Feuerman.PASA'
Subject': Re': Interlisp-D releases'
In-reply-to': MASINTER.PA''s message of 17 APR 84 21':20 PST'
To': MASINTER.PA'
cc': Feuerman, LisPSupport.PA, Raim, Sannella.PA'
'
Larry,'
'
Thank you, that helps a great deal.'
'
I like the idea of starting <LispCustomer> as seperate from <lisp> on Rosebowl.  Of course we''ll need to make sure that there''s enough room on Rosebowl to work with (Marty, what do you think of all this?  Is it a possibility?).'
'
I see that my confusion was stemming from not knowing the purpose of the LispFriends^ dl.  From now on I think I''ll use that as a means to keep abreast of what''s coming next, and possibly to get ahead on some important fixes.  One thing still bothers me a little, that being the frequency of <Lisp>Current> releases.  Is there a regular amount of time that you try to let lapse before sending out a new release?  I take it when something seems to have survived <LispCore> long enough, it gets officially released to <Lisp>Current> on Phylum, at which point (or some point) Rosebowl''s <Lisp>Current> is updated.  Then it is 1100Support''s job to create (what will be considered) <LispCustomer> from that.  '
With all of that, I feel I have a much better grasp of the situation (and hope to remain a loyal LispFriend!).'
'
--Ken.'
'
-----'
'
Date': Wed, 18 Apr 84 12':00 PST'
From': Raim.pasa'
Subject': Re': Interlisp-D releases'
In-reply-to': "Feuerman''s message of 18 Apr 84 11':22':02 PST (Wednesday)"'
To': Feuerman'
cc': MASINTER.PA, LisPSupport.PA, Raim, Sannella.PA'
'
Ken,'
'
We have ordered another T300 for the AISBU.  When that happens, we will restore {rose}<lisp> to be a copy of {phylum}<lisp> and maintain a separate {rose}<lispcustomer>.'
'
--Marty'
'
-----'
'
Date': 19 Apr 84 16':57':16 PST (Thursday)'
From': Masinter.PA'
Subject': Re': Why did you forward the msg from Feuerman.PASA with this AR submit request?'
In-reply-to': Sannella''s message of 19 Apr 84 16':01':53 PST (Thursday)'
To': LispSupport'
cc': Masinter'
'
Michael, I forwarded it because I was answering it. My answer to Ken (suitably edited) I think should be sent out to all members of LispFriends^. My answer also had some Action Requests for LispSupport.'
'


Workaround: 

Test Case: 

Edit-By: Sannella.PA

Edit-Date:  4-May-84 13':40':39

Attn: Sannella.pa

Assigned To: 

In/By: 

Disposition: 

System: Other Software

Subsystem: Release Procedure

Machine: 

Disk: 

Microcode Version: 

Memory Size: 

File Server: 

Server Software Version: 

Difficulty: Moderate

Frequency: Everytime

Impact: Moderate

Priority: Hopefully

Status: Open

Problem Type: Documentation

Source Files: