Number: 1439

Date: 14-Jun-84 16':16':38

Submitter: Sannella.PA

Source: dmrussell.pa

Subject: Want command in break to jump into editor editing "last" expression

Assigned To: 

Attn: Release

Status: Declined

In/By: 

Problem Type: Design - UI

Impact: Annoying

Difficulty: Moderate

Frequency: 

Priority: Perhaps

System: Programming Environment

Subsystem: Break Package

Machine: 

Disk: 

Lisp Version: 

Source Files: 

Microcode Version: 

Memory Size: 

File Server: 

Server Software Version: 

Disposition: '
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["Masinter" " 6-Sep-84 10':23':53" Attn': Status':(Open->Declined) Disposition': Description': Edit-By': Edit-Date':]'
["Sannella.PA" "10-Sep-84 12':15':29" Description':]

Description: [Release message should mention removal of DWIM stuff]'
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Date': Wed, 6 Jun 84 19':52 EDT'
From': dmrussell.pa'
Subject': Re': Random Lisp suggestions'
In-reply-to': "Burton''s message of 6 Jun 84 11':53 PDT"'
To': Burton'
cc': dmrussell, LispSupport'
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\ is an edit command!  See page 17.7  The documentation says -- "... Restores the current expression to the expression before the last "big jump", e.g., a find command, an ↑, or another \.  For example, if the user type F COND, and then F CAR, \ would take him back to the COND.  Another \ would take him back to the CAR. ... "  I use this to jump quickly from the break window into the editor for the last thing I editted.  Like lots of this stuff, it''s just shorthand.  My usual mode of operation is to set a break inside a fn, run it, and then jump into the editor so I can eval pieces of the partially executed fn and check its progress.  If everything is ok, I exit, then OK to the break.  This isn''t much of a win generally, but if you''re watching state change while inside of a loop, \ is much shorter to type than "DF TranslateExprFromGoalVarsToDSTDVars", as I have to do...  If I never took my hand off the mouse, it would be even faster.'
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-- DMR --'
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Date':  6 Jun 84 17':27 PDT'
From': JonL.pa'
Subject': Re': Random Lisp suggestions'
In-reply-to': dmrussell.pa''s message of Wed, 6 Jun 84 19':52 EDT'
To': dmrussell.pa'
cc': Burton.pa, LispSupport.pa'
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The fact that \ worked in the Break window was simply a hang-over from the kludgy DWIM interface that said if some atom wasn''t recognized at toplevel, but in fact was the name of an editor command, then re-enter the editor and . . .'
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But most of us disliked DWIM''s notion of preguessing our intentions, and Larry removed the kludge a couple weeks ago.'
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Nevertheless, the point you bring up is an exceedingly important one -- I think the MacLisp world''s notion of "single step execution debugger" would be one reasonable answer.  One of the ISI folks (DonC@ISI) implemented a similar sort of debugger for Interlisp/VAX, and the basic "hook" needed to make it run went into our system a couple months ago.  Would you like to be an "alpha" volunteer to try out their debugger?  '
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If DonC@ISI doesn''t get you a pointer at the package, you could also try DDYER@ISISB and RBATES@ISIB.'
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-- JonL --'
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Date': Wed, 6 Jun 84 20':50 EDT'
From': dmrussell.pa'
Subject': Re': Random Lisp suggestions'
In-reply-to': "JonL''s message of 6 Jun 84 17':27 PDT"'
To': JonL'
cc': dmrussell, Burton, LispSupport'
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If that change is as you describe, then someone better de-document it from the current manual...  "Feature" removals are just as important to get out of the document as feature additions are.  '
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The reason I liked \, and wanted it put into the break pop-up, was because it was a quick way to go from the break into the editor without having to type a long edit command.  (In my case, I would have to type something like DF TranslateExprFromGoalVarsToDSTDVars -- this gets quickly boring when the break is set inside a loop.)  '
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Re': Single step debugger.  We practically have one now in Dedit.  At least, that''s the way I often use Dedit.  Works fine.  What else would this MacLisp debugger do for me?   Sure, I''ll try anything once -- but not right now.  Wait a week or so...'
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-- in absentia -- '
-- DMR -- '
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Date':  6 Jun 84 18':35 PDT'
From': Burton.pa'
Subject': Re': Random Lisp suggestions'
In-reply-to': dmrussell.pa''s message of Wed, 6 Jun 84 19':52 EDT'
To': dmrussell.pa'
cc': LispSupport.pa'
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I think your hack has been a victim of Larry''s recent DWIM expedition; to whit edit commands are no longer recognized at the top level as reasons to call the editor.  This was done because many of our users don''t even know what an edit command is and get very confused at DWIM''s mistakes.'
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I will change the AR to be a request for a \ break command that does what you want and then to put such into the menu.'
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Priority': more likely I will give users the chance to put what they want in the menu.'
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richard'
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Date': Thu, 7 Jun 84 00':40 EDT'
From': dmrussell.pa'
Subject': Re': Random Lisp suggestions'
In-reply-to': "Burton''s message of 6 Jun 84 18':35 PDT"'
To': Burton'
cc': dmrussell, LispSupport'
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Your suggestion sounds fine to me.  '
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Question':  How will I (the user) know what the "last expr editted" was if I want to add this fn to the break menu?  (Esp. if that code has been removed?  Look on the history list?)'
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-- DMR -- '
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Date':  7 JUN 84 21':51 PDT'
From': MASINTER.PA'
Subject': the last function edited...'
To':   dmrussell'
cc':   jonl, lispsupport, burton'
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Well, in fact, what DWIM was if you typed an edit command was to BKSYSBUF the command and then call (EDITF) of no arguments.'
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(EDITF) or (DF) will wind up editing the same function that your typing "\" would have, except that you won''t wind up with the stupid backslash in the edit buffer, doing you no good. (I guess I could have made it conditional on EDITMODE=DISPLAY and left it in for EDITMODE=TELETYPE, but....)'
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Date':  6 Sep 84 10':24 PDT'
From': Masinter.pa'
Subject': AR#1439, "Want command in break to jump into editor editing "last" expression"'
To': DMRussell, Burton, Sannella, JonL'
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This was about Dan''s request for what "\" used to do.'
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It was my impression that the Disposition of this AR should be Declined, and that calling (DF)  and letting the editor decide who to edit would do exactly what "\" used to do.'
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(I.e., my foray into DWIM at the time only removed an odd non-feature.)'
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Workaround: 

Test Case: 

Edit-By: Sannella.PA

Edit-Date: 10-Sep-84 12':15':32