Number: 209

Date: 20-Mar-84 12':07':27

Submitter: Sannella.PA

Source: Sheil.pa

Subject: Want consistency in MoveTo confirmation

Assigned To: vanMelle

Attn: Release

Status: Fixed

In/By: 

Problem Type: Design - UI

Impact: Annoying

Difficulty: Easy

Frequency: Everytime

Priority: Perhaps

System: Text

Subsystem: Lafite

Machine: 1100

Disk: 

Lisp Version: 1-Mar-84

Source Files: 

Microcode Version: 

Memory Size: 

File Server: 

Server Software Version: 

Disposition: 

Description: '
Date': 19 Mar 84 20':17 PST'
From': Sheil.pa'
Subject': Lafite': MoveTo confirmation'
To': LafiteSupport.pa'
'
Lafite-System-Date': 28-Feb-84 13':10':33'
Lisp-System-Date':  1-Mar-84 14':24':22'
Machine-Type': Dolphin'
'
Seems to me that the semantics of MoveTo confirmation are reversed. If you left button MoveTo and then select your choice from a menu, you get asked for a mouse confirmation, even tho you have just explicitly choosen from a menu. On the other hand, if you middle button MoveTo, the move takes place with no confirmation at all, even tho you may just have missed "Update".'
'
Moral': Confirmation belongs to implict choices, not explicit ones.'
'
Beau'
'
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'
Date': 26 Mar 84 16':52 PST'
From': vanMelle.pa'
Subject': Re': AR 209': Lafite MoveTo confirmation after menu'
To': Sheil'
cc': LafiteSupport.pa'
'
The motivation is that middle button "does something special".  In the case of MoveTo, it is an accelerator that moves to the same place you picked last time.  The theory on confirmation of MoveTo is that if you select from the menu, it''s easy to klutz and pick the wrong file, something that is awkward to recover from (and can easily go unnoticed if confirmation were not required).'
'
Your theory is that it''s easy to klutz and hit MoveTo when you meant Update.'
'
Moral': don''t use middle button unless you mean to.'
'
On the other hand, requiring confirmation on ALL moves, though I have never desired it, does not seem unreasonable, and might make for a cleaner interface.'
'
	Bill'
'
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Date': 26 Mar 84 18':00 PST'
From': Sheil.pa'
Subject': Re': AR 209': Lafite MoveTo confirmation after menu'
In-reply-to': vanMelle.pa''s message of 26 Mar 84 16':52 PST'
To': vanMelle.pa'
cc': LafiteSupport.pa'
'
"The theory on confirmation of MoveTo is that if you select from the menu, it''s easy to klutz and pick the wrong..."'
'
In which case the system is in desparate trouble since there are all kinds of unconfirmed menu choices all over the system.'
'
Having confirmation for ALL is clean. Confirming after a menu choice is hoaky.'
'
Beau'
'
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Date': 26 Mar 84 18':25 PST'
From': sybalsky.pa'
Subject': Re': AR 209': Lafite MoveTo confirmation after menu'
In-reply-to': vanMelle.pa''s message of 26 Mar 84 16':52 PST'
To': vanMelle.pa'
cc': Sheil.pa, LafiteSupport.pa'
'
I prefer having middle button avoid the confirmation--I do a lot of moving things around.  On the other hand, I''d like to be able to avoid setting the default target folder sometimes--if I''m mostly moving things to folder A, but in the middle I need to move one thing to folder B.'
'
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'
Date': 27 Mar 84 11':17 PST'
From': vanMelle.pa'
Subject': Re': AR 209': Lafite MoveTo confirmation after menu'
In-reply-to': Sheil.pa''s message of 26 Mar 84 18':00 PST'
To': Sheil.pa'
cc': vanMelle.pa, LafiteSupport.pa'
'
No, the system is not in desperate trouble.  Of all the menus from which you might pick the wrong item, there are very few cases where choosing the wrong item has a major penalty.  In the case of MoveTo, however (a) the only feedback about the choice you made is the tiny "default moveto" line in the title, and (b) even if you notice that it''s doing the wrong thing, you can''t simply abort the operation or select "Undo" to recover--you have to browse the destination file and delete the unwanted message.'
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There are surely other examples in the system that are deficient in this regard (the !Undo item in Dedit, which is not undoable, comes to mind), and I would recommend fixing them.'
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Mind you, I''m not crazy about Lafite''s MoveTo interface.  I''ve been searching for some while for a better one.'
'
	Bill'
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Date': 29 Mar 84 10':08 PST'
From': Sheil.pa'
Subject': Re': AR 209': Lafite MoveTo confirmation after menu'
In-reply-to': vanMelle.pa''s message of 27 Mar 84 11':17 PST'
To': vanMelle.pa'
cc': LafiteSupport.pa'
'
I think you''ve got my argument backwards. It''s not that I recommend removing the confirm from the left button MoveTo (altho I would, because the consequences are not all that awful) but that it should be consistent with what happens on middle buttoning. Either confirm both or confirm neither. I dont think that choice of mouse button is decisively less likely to be in error than choice out of a menu (in fact, I believe the reverse).'
'
I''d not confirm either (a la John S.''s suggestion) or confirm both, but they should be the same.'
'
Beau'
'
PS': Incidentally, the fact that that !Undo in DEdit is not undoable is a bug, which I have undertaken to fix, not a deficiency in interface design.  '
'
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Date':  5 Apr 84 18':23 PST'
From': Kaplan.pa'
Subject': Lafite': Default move-to folder'
To': LafiteSupport.pa'
Lafite-System-Date': 28-Feb-84 13':10':33'
Lisp-System-Date': 20-Mar-84 18':25':18'
Machine-Type': Dorado'
'
I use a somewhat larger font for my window title font, and the result is that the name of the Default move-to window does not really show on the screen.  This means that I am never safe in using the middle button, because I don''t know where the message is likely to go and I am not told where it went after it went there.'
'
I suggest the following change in interaction':  When the middle button is used for Move-to, print out the name of the destination folder in the little prompt window above the browser.  That solves the problem of knowing where to go to retrieve the message.'
'
I think I would also not mind it if it requested a mouse confirm after printing out the name of the folder, so I would then get told in advance and have a chance to deny the default move folder, even though I can''t see what it is on the screen.  The extra click is a minor inconvenience in return for really being sure about what is going on.'
'
In fact, I actually don''t see why there is a difference now in the confirmation requirements of the Left and Middle button':  With the Left button, you have to explicitly select the folder, then confirm.  The argument says that you needn''t bother confirming on Middle cause its an already known target should apply equally well to a folder that you have just carefully selected.'
'
I think there should be confirms on both interactions.'


Workaround: 

Test Case: 

Edit-By: vanMelle

Edit-Date:  5-Jun-84 14':16':57