File [phylum]<LispARs>00178.AR!4

Number: 178

Date: 18-Mar-84 17':05':49

Submitter: Sannella.PA

Source: desRivieres.pa

Subject: Missing "-" on NS Printer Terminal font Problem

Lisp Version: 

Description: '
Date': 10 Mar 84 15':40 PST'
From': desRivieres.pa'
Subject': Lisp': Missing "-" on LispPrint': Terminal font'
To': LispSupport.pa'
cc': 3LispSupport↑.pa'
Lisp-System-Date':  5-Mar-84 16':21':20'
Machine-Type': Dorado'
'
I EMPRESSed a TEDIT-created file (without LOOKS) to LispPrint':.  It was printed in a GACHA-like font (called TERMINAL) that has no "-" (55Q) character!  Where can I get a description of the fonts on LispPrint': (and the set of fonts available for Ravens, so that I can make sure CSLI''s printers will be properly equipped.)'
'
---Jim   '
-----'
Date': 12 Mar 84 15':24 PST'
From': Sybalsky.pa'
Subject': Re': Lisp': Missing "-" on LispPrint': Terminal font'
In-reply-to': desRivieres.pa''s message of 10 Mar 84 15':40 PST'
To': desRivieres.pa'
cc': LispSupport.pa, 3LispSupport↑.pa'
'
The TERMINAL font on LispPrint': does indeed have a "-" character in it -- but the character code for hyphen is NOT 55Q in the NS world.'
'
MAKEINTERPRESS (which EMPRESS invokes to print on NS printers) now includes conversions from all of the ASCII characters that I am aware don''t map straight into NS, including "-", "$",'' "↑", and "←".  This will be in whatever new loadup happens next after now;  however, any hyphens that should appear in page headings will not, for the time being.'
-----'
Date': 13 Mar 84 12':40 PST'
From': Kaplan.pa'
Subject': Re': Lisp': Missing "-" on LispPrint': Terminal font'
In-reply-to': desRivieres.pa''s message of 10 Mar 84 15':40 PST'
To': desRivieres.pa'
cc': LispSupport.pa, 3LispSupport↑.pa'
'
We believe that the missing hyphen problem has been fixed, for next loadup.  I think that Jean Gascon is now the raven maven.  Joan Phillips at XSIS is the person who will install the printer software at CSLI.'
'
--Ron'
-----'
Date': 13 Mar 84 17':36 PST'
From': Masinter.pa'
Subject': Re': Terminal Font'
In-reply-to': Phillips.PASA''s message of 13 Mar 84 15':04':05 PST (Tuesday)'
To': Phillips.PASA'
cc': Raim.pasa, 1100Support, LispSupport, Martin.PASA, Masinter.pa, Agadoni.PASA'
'
There is some belief that the missing "-" is a problem with the Lisp Software rather than the 8044. If so, we can resolve it more simply.'
'
Can one of you test whether you can generate and print a "-" or "$" character from the Star workstation?'
'
Are you running the latest (carol.1/fugue.6) release of Interlisp-D?'
-----'
Date': 14 Mar 84 11':18 PST'
From': Sybalsky.pa'
Subject': More on "Terminal"-font problems'
In-reply-to': MASINTER.PA''s message of 13 MAR 84 22':52 PST'
To': MASINTER.PA, Raim.pasa, Phillips.pasa, Sannella.pa'
cc': sybalsky.PA, Kaplan.pa'
'
Larry, Marty, Joan, Mike--'
'
'
	The problems people have been having with the "Terminal" font are due to software.  Because Lisp uses ASCII and NS printers use the NS character set, we have to do some character conversions.'
'
	These conversions are needed at 3 places in the INTERPRESS code; the Fugue.6 release as of now has it in one of the three.'
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	{Phylum}<Lispcore>Sources>INTERPRESS[.dcom] has all of the conversions in place.  I was able to run listings, and the characters appeared everywhere they should.  This code could be imported into the release, if the demand is great enough; it does not affect other parts of the system.'
'
Ron--'
'
	I changed everything but APPENDIDENTIFIER.IP to do the conversion to NS charsets.  Unfortunately, things like font names, e.g., "XEROX XC82-0-0 TERMINAL" want the hyphens to be ASCII hyphens!  Since APPENDIDENTIFIER is the guy who emits those, I changed it to do no conversions.  IP.PRIN3 et al noe CONVERT TO NS.  There is also a function, NCHARS.IP, which returns the # of chars in the NS version of the string.'
-----'
Date': Wed, 14 Mar 84 12':38 PST'
From': Raim.pasa'
Subject': Re': More on "Terminal"-font problems'
In-reply-to': "Sybalsky.pa''s message of 14 Mar 84 11':18 PST"'
To': Sybalsky.pa'
cc': MASINTER.pa, Raim, Phillips, Sannella.pa, Kaplan.pa'
'
John,'
'
Thank you for your thorough analysis of the problem.  There are only a few sites that care about this problem, but they are up-in-arms over it.  Your solution is timely.  However, Terminal only exists in two sizes, 8 and 12, I believe.  Can customers function with just these until we order 6 and 10?  I''d rather not risk adding new Interpress.dcom unless the payoff is real.'
'
--Marty'
-----'
Date': 14 Mar 84 13':09 PST'
From': Sybalsky.pa'
Subject': Re': More on "Terminal"-font problems'
In-reply-to': Raim.pasa''s message of Wed, 14 Mar 84 12':38 PST'
To': Raim.pasa'
cc': Sybalsky.pa, MASINTER.pa, Phillips.pasa, Sannella.pa, Kaplan.pa'
'
You''re the one who knows what the customers can live with; however, let''s look at the possible needs':'
'
--TEditing a document with Gacha 10 in it will print with modern in place of gacha;  We could (kludge, kludge) put code in INTERPRESS to coerce Gacha into Terminal, and probably change 10-pt to whichever would be best.  Still, if they can live without that, better.'
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--Creating your own interpress file, including references to Gacha 10 will have the same problem'
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--LISTFILES; if the font profile is changed to have Terminal 8 instead of whatever Gacha it has, this should work with the new INTERPRESS in place.'
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--EMPRESSing a random .tty file; same deal.'
'
'
Let me know which way you want to go.'
'
	--John'
-----'
Date': 14 Mar 84 14':18 PST'
From': Sybalsky.pa'
Subject': Re': More on "Terminal"-font problems'
In-reply-to': Raim.pasa''s message of Wed, 14 Mar 84 13':48 PST'
To': Raim.pasa'
cc': Sybalsky.pa, MASINTER.pa, Phillips.pasa, Sannella.pa, Kaplan.pa'
'
Then we have it.  The font profile in the full.sysout I''m running in has only Modern and Terminal as interpress fonts.'
'
I''ve run listings with that, and they seem reasonable, i.e., they include hyphens and arrows, at least.'
'
So now the question':  Do you want to make a new loadup with this INTERPRESS in it, or will you distribute this INTERPRESS as a patch to selected customers?  If the former, we should let Mike Sannella know.'
-----'
Date': 14 Mar 84 17':28 PST'
From': masinter.pa'
Subject': Re': More on "Terminal"-font problems'
In-reply-to': Sybalsky.pa''s message of 14 Mar 84 14':18 PST'
To': Sybalsky.pa'
cc': Raim.pasa, MASINTER.pa, Phillips.pasa, Sannella.pa, Kaplan.pa'
'
John, what I take this to mean is that the LISTFILES problem is solved in the current Carol.1/Fugue.6 problem.'
'
If so, this would lead me to believe that the "tests" that Marty Raim and Joan Phillips ran in Pasadena may have been with a previous version of Interlisp-D.'
'
Marty and Joan, can you confirm or deny this? Do you know what version of Interlisp-D you used. Alternatively, could you try a LISTFILES again with Carol.1/Fugue.6?'
-----'
Date': 14 Mar 84 17':51 PST'
From': Sybalsky.pa'
Subject': Re': More on "Terminal"-font problems'
In-reply-to': masinter.pa''s message of 14 Mar 84 17':28 PST'
To': masinter.pa'
cc': Sybalsky.pa, Raim.pasa, Phillips.pasa, Sannella.pa, Kaplan.pa'
'
Nyet.  The LISTFILES problem is fixed in Fugue.6 after you load the new INTERPRESS.'
-----'
Date': 15 Mar 84 00':58 PST'
From': desRivieres.pa'
Subject': TEdit': Hardcopy to Lispprint': '
To': TEditSupport'
cc': desRivieres.pa'
TEdit-System-Date':  1-Mar-84 13':54':34'
Lisp-System-Date':  1-Mar-84 14':24':22'
Machine-Type': Dorado'
'
When I Tedit HARDCOPY my files to Lispprint':, they are printed in the MODERN font.  My files have no special looks, and I haven''t changed TEDIT.DEFAULTFONT, so I expect it to display in font GACHA (or TERMINAL).'
'
It might also be a good idea to provide some hooks to allow the user to indicate a substitute hardcopy family when going to an NS printer.  Also, since MODERN seems to be the best-supported sans-serif font, it would be nice to have a .strike version of it (perhaps there already is something very similar to it?)'
'
---Jim'
-----'
Date': 15 Mar 84 10':16 PST'
From': Sybalsky.pa'
Subject': Re': TEdit': Hardcopy to Lispprint': '
In-reply-to': desRivieres.pa''s message of 15 Mar 84 00':58 PST'
To': desRivieres.pa'
cc': TEditSupport.pa'
'
There is no Gacha font on Lispprint; in the future, we MAY translate it to Terminal, but not for a while.'
'
You CAN do a (Fontcreate ''modern 10)...  While there is no .strike font, Lisp knows how to get to the NS font sets.'
'


Workaround: 

Test Case: 

Edit-By: Sannella.PA

Edit-Date:  8-May-84 17':16':54

Attn: 

Assigned To: Sybalsky

In/By: Fugue.6 (9-Apr-84)

Disposition: '
[Date':  2 Apr 84 11':46 PST'
From': Sybalsky.pa'
Subject': Lisp': AR 178 FIXED]

System: Windows and Graphics

Subsystem: Printing

Machine: 

Disk: 

Microcode Version: 

Memory Size: 

File Server: 

Server Software Version: 

Difficulty: Easy

Frequency: Everytime

Impact: Moderate

Priority: Hopefully

Status: Closed

Problem Type: Documentation

Source Files: