Number: 133

Date: 17-Mar-84  0':23':56

Submitter: Masinter.PA

Source: Masinter.PA

Subject: Must set time with Floppy when turning on Stand-alone Dlion (if no working lisp)

Lisp Version: Fugue.6/Carol.1

Description: '
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Date': 27 Mar 84 17':35':30 PST (Tuesday)'
From': JFung.pasa'
Subject': SET-TIME crisis on Stand-Alone systems?'
To': Masinter.pa'
cc': Raim, Sheil.pa, JFung'
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Someone has to tell me if this is not acceptable.'
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On stand-alone Dlions, when you power-off and power-on, set-time can be achieved in Interlisp, if the user does not want to work on this particular Lisp-volume, then he LOGOUT, which brings the Interlisp-DMT.  Yes, on blank volumes (no lisp), users have to set-time by booting a floppy.   This works. I''ve tried it.'
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What is wrong with this?  It looks pretty clean to me. '
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I was treating the problem as a MP937 code, which we believe now is hardware related. It occurs on some Dlions only (intermittent problems)'
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Is this acceptable? Or do we still want Lisp-Othello?'
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Date': 27 Mar 84 21':44 PST'
From': Masinter.pa'
Subject': Re': SET-TIME crisis on Stand-Alone systems?'
In-reply-to': JFung.pasa''s message of 27 Mar 84 17':35':30 PST (Tuesday)'
To': JFung.pasa'
cc': Masinter.pa, Raim.pasa, Sheil.pa'
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the problem with that, Jerry, is that it presupposes a working Interlisp-D.'
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In most of the cases I''ve seen, the situation has been':'
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Interlisp-D crashes with fatal error.'
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User turns machine off in disgust.'
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Next day, user turns machine on.'
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Must mess around with floppies for 10 minutes before getting off the ground, confirming his disgust.'
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MP937 is certainly NOT hardware related. It has a clear indication in the book': Mesa is waiting for a time server to respond. It is not intermittent but reproducable, it happens whenever you attempt to boot tajo after power on without previously setting time.'
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LispOthello has the other advantage of (a) less boot time, and (b) less dependence on software we don''t control (in this case, Othello and eventually Prometheus.)'
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Your message does point out an important Workaround for the problem in the case that there IS a working Interlisp-D on the disk at power on, and might reduce the priority of this problem if there were more pressing projects.'
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In the current configuration of InstallLispTool and Diangostics as delivered to customers, any stand alone machine (not connected on an ethernet to a time server) hangs while waiting for the time after it has had the power turned off.'
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In order to use the machine after power on, it is necessary to boot from a floppy, set the time, and then boot from the disk. If you want to refresh lisp at that time, you then have to start the InstallLispTool, and install lisp. This is extremely annoying to first-time users.'
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In order to fix this, it is likely necessary to prepare a special version of Tajo, Germ, or Pilot Microcode which DOES NOT require the time to be set; for example, by setting the time to a valid but incorrect value and allowing the user to type in the time. This may involve gathering the pieces necessary to rebuild Tajo.

Workaround: '
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On stand-alone Dlions, when you power-off and power-on, set-time can be achieved in Interlisp, if the user does not want to work on this particular Lisp-volume, then he LOGOUT, which brings the Interlisp-DMT.  Yes, on blank volumes (no lisp), users have to set-time by booting a floppy.   This works. I''ve tried it.  (JFung.pasa)'
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Test Case: 

Edit-By: Sannella.PA

Edit-Date: 28-Jun-84 14':50':33

Attn: JFung.pasa

Assigned To: 

In/By: 

Disposition: 

System: Other Software

Subsystem: Installation Utility

Machine: 1108

Disk: 

Microcode Version: 

Memory Size: 

File Server: 

Server Software Version: 

Difficulty: Hard

Frequency: Everytime

Impact: Annoying

Priority: Hopefully

Status: Open

Problem Type: Design - UI

Source Files: InstallLispTool.mesa, etc.