*start*
00692 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 23 Jan. 1984 11:18 am PST (Monday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: Re: SIL
To: Sweet.PA
cc: Thompson

Dick-

The screen co-ordinates are actual screen pixels from a not-quite upper left
origin.

Upper Left Tick:	X: 0	Y: 0
1 over, 1 down:	X: 16	Y: 16
Upper RightTick:	X:560	Y: 0
Farthest Upper RightX:576	Y: 0
Lower Left Tick:	X: 0	Y: 752
Farthest Lower Left	X: 0	Y: 760


Ted Manley TMP says that Versatec is supplying two button mice BUT he has a
three button mouse on his D'Lion. He uses an Alto mouse and just has a small
adapter cable to do the pin transformation. I will try to find one or get one made
up.

Geoff

*start*
00243 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 25 Jan. 1984 11:44 am PST (Wednesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: Re: SIL
To: Sweet.PA
cc: Thompson

Dick-

All mouse actions take place on KeyDown, not KeyUp

Geoff

*start*
00272 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 19 Mar 84 12:06:26 PST (Monday)
From: NHansen.pa
Subject: Sweet Sil...
To: Sweet
cc: NHansen.pa, Thompson

Dick,

As I am a member of the hardware group. Can I have some of that Sweet Sil?

Neil
*start*
00523 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 20 March 1984 4:50 pm PST (Tuesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: SweetSil-Dump files
To: Sweet
cc: Thompson

Dick-

I have put a test case out so that you can look at the format. It is on:

Iris SDDNorth IFS 1.38.1, 20 March 1984 4:49 pm PST (Tuesday).

                          Bytes Pgs
<Thompson>SweetTest>
  SweetTest.dm!1            718   2
  SweetTest.sil!1            72   2
  TstUser.cm!1              580   2
Total of 6 pages in 3 files.
*start*
00657 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 22 Mar 84 15:38:47 PST (Thursday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: SweetSil
To: Sweet
cc: , Thompson

Dick-

I made up a file that had some uppercase 5 in it. It's on [IRIS]<Thompson>UCFiveExample.sil. I tried it. Went right to the debugger.

Other topics:
Buffer sizes for Alto Sil

Parc Sil of Feb. 19, 1981	9283
Parc Sil/1 of Feb. 19, 1981	12745
ED Sil of August 2, 1982	8049
ED Sil/1 of August 2, 1982	11511

Dare I start on feature requests?
	A "KILL" button to the left of the "in!" button would be nice.
	
	
How do I clear the buffer on LIST? or don't I.

It's wonderful

Geoff

*start*
00530 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 22 Mar 84 15:47:25 PST (Thursday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: SweetSil Bug Report
To: Sweet
cc: , Thompson

Dick-

Bugs/Features
	Font #, width #, etc dont show any values until you change them. They should come up with the default value showing.
	
	Control Q: I'm not sure what it should do but it doesn't do the right thing. It puts you in add text mode and a CR doesn't get you out. May be it does but it leaves the Add Text note in the status window
*start*
01195 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 25 Mar 84 17:16:36 PST (Sunday)
From: Bowers.PA
Subject: Dsil bug report
To: Sweet
cc: Bowers.PA

Dick,

I'm having a great time experimenting with DSIL and really appreciate being able to look at the source files.  Here are the bugs I've found so far:

The SIGNAL NoFontsDotWidths, raised in PrintFontWidths, is not caught.

The ERROR ELBufferOverflow, was raised in OPImpl, when I tried to produce a press file from [Iris]<Workstation>IOP>IOPLayout.sil

When BlowupScreen is called with origin = corner the program goes into an infinite loop.

After I have run DSil several times, the ERROR MFile.ImplementationError["bad leader page"] is raised in MFileImplA. This occurs in DoFont when attempting to get a ReadOnly Handle on Helvetica10N.strike.  After that, I can't run DSil again until I have run the Mesa Scavenger.   I am very curious to know what is causing this and would like to know how to diagnose this sort of problem. 

My user.cm entry for sil:

[SIL]
0: Helvetica10B Helvetica10N
1: Helvetica7B Helvetica7B
2: TEMPLATE64
3: Gates32


Despite these few bugs DSil is a great program!

Thanks,
   Frank.
*start*
01799 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 27 Mar 84 18:03:59 PST (Tuesday)
Subject: Sil User Interface
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Thompson
From: Dillon.PA

Dick,

I have experimented with Sil and DSil with regards to mark and origion motion. The only parts of the user interface which does not follow Sil is the treatment of the origin are:

 ControlSelect => <<This is a very useful feature for moving the origin>>
   IF (pointing to an object) THEN
     {move the origin to the object's upper left corner of the bounding box;
       select the object};
   ELSE move the origin to the cursor location <<DSil does not do this>>;
 Select => {
   deselect everything;
   IF (pointing to an object) THEN
     {move the origin to the upper left corner of the object's bounding box;
       add the object to the current selection <<null operation if the object is already selected>>};
   ELSE move the origin to the cursor location <<DSil does not do this>>;
  Undelete, ControlShiftDraw => {
    Pop the most recently deleted selection off the trash stack;
    Move the origin to the upper left corner of the selection's bounding box
      <<DSil does not do this>>
    }

DSil is correct in that:
 ControlShiftSelect does not move the mark or origin
 ShiftSelect moves the origin only when something has been selected

Other problems:
 Bugging YLock does not have the same effect as ^Y (I can fix this myself)
 When YLock=FALSE, only <enter text><cr> advances the mark downward subsequent <cr>s do nothing (I can fix this myself)
 There is no visual cue for X=0 or Y=0 (nit) (X=0 and Y=0 are not coincident with the edge of the window, yet you can position the cursor at the edge).
 Some or all of the mark and origin disappear when placed at X>572 or Y>756

     -- John
*start*
00335 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 30 Mar 84 14:35:16 PST (Friday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: Re: Sil User Interface
In-reply-to: Dillon's message of 27 Mar 84 18:03:59 PST (Tuesday)
To: Dillon
cc: Sweet, Thompson

The version on [Igor]<Sweet>Hacks>11.0>* fixes almost all of the problems.

Dick
*start*
00405 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date:  8 Apr 84 00:22:45 PST (Sunday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: New DSil
To: Thompson, Dillon
cc: Sweet

I have stored a new, improved version.  This one fixes all the bugs I can remember being there and has significant bulletproofing to deal with missing fonts, User.cm's, Fonts.widths, etc.  John, please make a Sierra version.

Dick
*start*
00986 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 12 Apr 84 09:37:06 PST (Thursday)
From: Lopez.pa
Subject: Dsil Problems
To: Sweet
cc: , Lopez.pa

I have found what I think may be a problem with Dsil and I was wondering if you might be able to shed some light on it . The problem occurs when I try to get a Hardcopy of "FloppyBdMap.sil" . I started Dsil in Tajo so that I could get a debug message when it blew up and this is what the debug.log had :

12-Apr-84  9:24
*** uncaught ERROR ELBufferOverflow (in module OPImpl, G: 113444B)

The problem can be easily recreated . The file is on [Ibis]<Lopez>sil>FloppyBdMap.sil if you want a copy to look at .
 Feel free to come down to my office any time if you want to see the problem , I'm in room 100G .

Herb.


P.S. My office partner is also using Dsil in copilot and had the same problem happen to him except that after it occurred he couldn't boot copilot again until he had scavenged his copilot volume .
*start*
00765 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 12 Apr 84 14:03:25 PST (Thursday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: Re: Dsil Problems
In-reply-to: Your message of 12 Apr 84 09:37:06 PST (Thursday)
To: Lopez
cc: Sweet

Unfortunately, the bug is not is DSil but in Print.  There is a fixed size bugger (ELBufferOver) that is not large enough to handle the amount of information on the page.  We'll have to fix this by making Print (actually OPImpl) allocate a larger buffer (it might be possible to allow it to grow, but that might require learning how it works).

The problem requiring scavenging is a recurring one that puzzles me.  All know instances have involved the fonts Helvetica7b and Helvetica10N that I created. Did this one also?

Dick
*start*
00563 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 17 Apr 84 16:02:34 PST (Tuesday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: New DSil
To: Thompson, Dillon, NHansen
cc: Sweet

I have stored a new Klamath version of DSil.  I fixed the garbage at the bottom of Template64 characters.  The garbage was the result of a core clobber, which may have been responsibile for the distruction of fonts (and subsequent need for scavenging).  I also fixed it to act like SIL when drawing lines up and to the left (Ask Neil).  John, please make a Sierra version.

Dick
*start*
00402 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 17 Apr 84 16:05:51 PST (Tuesday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: New DSil
To: Thompson, Dillon, NHansen
cc: Sweet

I forgot to say in the last message.

[Igor]<Sweet>Temp>OldPrint.bcd will print diagrams approximately twice as complicated as the current released one (I'll try to make this one the released one in a few days).

Dick
*start*
00355 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 17 Apr 84 20:07:50 PST (Tuesday)
Subject: Re: New DSil
In-reply-to: Sweet's message of 17 Apr 84 16:02:34 PST (Tuesday)
To: Sweet
cc: Thompson, Dillon, NHansen, Kumar
From: Dillon.PA

A Sierra version is now available as:
  [Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>10.0>Tools>DSil.bcd

     -- John
*start*
00454 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 18 Apr 84 09:29:31 PST (Wednesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: SweetSil
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Thompson

Got a new error message. What's it mean

"--can'acquire output file"

I pulled up Sil from  a tiny window to full size. I then tried to output the file/image that was there from the last session. Does only the illusion of a file live thru tiny and not the substance?

Geoff
*start*
00714 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 18 Apr 84 10:45:45 PST (Wednesday)
Subject: Word Got Out!
To: Thompson
cc: Dillon, Sweet
From: Dillon.PA

Geoff,

I got a call from Bruce Hammer in El Segundo, who heard fifth hand that a Dandelion Sil was becoming available. He is part of the Grids group in ED who is reviewing the options for future PWB generation. His word is that his boss's boss favors the Expert 1000, but that they are reviewing Cande as well. Now that he has heard of DSil, they want to review it too.

What he wants from us is a Sierra version of DSil for test. I said I wanted to check with people here before opening the flood gates.

Comments?

     -- John
*start*
00997 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 18 Apr 84 13:53:17 PST (Wednesday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: Re: Word Got Out!
In-reply-to: Dillon's message of 18 Apr 84 10:45:45 PST (Wednesday)
To: Dillon
cc: Thompson, Sweet

DSil is in a somewhat funny situation.  It works pretty well, but isn't bulletproof in the situation of missing fonts, etc. (but is probably better at that than last time someone tried to bring it up from scratch).  

It lacks a few features (^A, "uppercase" macro libraries, growth limits to remain compatible with Alto Sil, build bars, you can't deactivate it, and probably others), but these are all pretty simple to implement once fully specified.

The main problem is that no organization in SDD is responsible for maintaining it, and it's not clear that the implementor will be around for more than a couple of months.  Other than that, now that I think I've solved the clobbered font problem, I'm willing to let it get wider use.

Dick
*start*
00510 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 24 Apr 84 10:34:41 PST (Tuesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: DSil bugs
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Thompson

Dick-

Some funnies about the way text gets handled.

Current Version = 11.0 of 17-April-84 15:59

Backspace takes too long and doesn't paint right for bold/italic

You can't bail out of the text edit mode with the DEL key as you can in the real Sil.

Absolute value on Y-Lock

Height of current font (not string) on non-Y-Lock



*start*
01016 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 24 Apr 84 11:10:40 PST (Tuesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: DSil Features
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Thompson

Dick-

for LIST I would like a clear list button

ALSO at the bottom of the button window (Default covered) a set of headings for the list window.

ALSO a defaults button to set things back to the value that Alto Sil starts up at.

How bout color in LIST as the character that you type?

Show password in list?

On IRIS are examples

DIOP27.sil has build bars   password: 34563B

PARCPassword.sil was created with the PARC version of sil   password: 34562B

EDSilPassword was created with the ED version of Sil that we use  password: 34562B

Whoops they seem to be the same. The password on hdcont06.sil was password: 10422B. I don't know where that came from. I will have to ask Swenson. He wasn't there when I just looked. The guys from ED might have coded something into the password about what fonts are loaded (smell).

Geoff


*start*
00463 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date:  1 May 84 11:23:04 PDT (Tuesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: SweetSil Bug
To: Sweet, Dillon
cc: , Thompson

Dick-

As I said on the phone, apparently SweetSil doesn't close files when you list them. It may just be that it doesn't close them when you are listing them and hit the STOP key. It showed up that the exec would not let me delete them because they were shown as in use.

Geoff
*start*
00344 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date:  1 May 84 14:47:38 PDT (Tuesday)
Subject: Sierra DSil Release
To: Thompson
cc: Dillon, Sweet
From: Dillon.PA

Geoff,

Dick has advised me to wait a few days in order to release an updated version. I am informing Bruce Hammer that there will be a delay.

     -- John
*start*
00505 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date:  2 May 84 10:18:22 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: SweetSil Feature/Bug
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Thompson

Dick-

I finally sat down and took a look at what is different about MARK and ORIGIN placement. 

SIL moves the MARK to the same location as the ORIGIN when you do a DELETE

SWEETSIL leaves the MARK where it is when you do a DELETE.

While this may be a feature, even a desirable one, it upsets my ganglia

Geoff
*start*
00311 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date:  9 May 84 11:22:40 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Camacho.PA
Subject: DSil Info.
To: Sweet
cc: , Camacho

I am currently using this hack (despite the bugs) and would like to keep informed as "new and improved" versions come along.  Thank you.
*start*
01461 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date:  9 May 84 13:48:34 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: New, Improved DSil
To: Thompson, Dillon
cc: Sweet

There are lots of changes in the latest version.

The "uppercase" macro fonts have been added.  Since I have never seen them documented, I'm extrapolating them to be named %, ~, &, *, and (.

Things like width, font, and grid are now enumerated items, you can bring up a menu and choose (or type ^W, ^F, or ^G).

You can deactivate it (by bringing up the menu on the drawing window).  You can, for example, deactive it, edit User.cm, and then reactivate it having it read in a new set of fonts or macros (it's best to reactivate the one that isn't the form window).

Making a press file of a full-screen drawing will probably work now rather than have the top quarter-inch reflected to the bottom.

The List command no longer leaves the file locked.

Backspace no longer takes forever on a busy picture.

YLock is now absolute value.

Carriage return now works much better.

Bailing out of editing a string with DEL now restores the original string.

Build bars go away if you edit a file.

DSil moves the Mark on Delete like Sil does.

I suspect there are still bugs, maybe even some new ones introduced along with the new features.

John, can you make a Sierra version?  The Klamath version is on [Igor]<Sweet>Hacks>11.0>Tools>DSil.bcd for any Klamath alphatesters.

Dick
*start*
00451 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 10 May 84 11:11:28 PDT (Thursday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: Newer, More improved...
To: Dillon
cc: Thompson, Sweet

If you're not too far along, you should pick up the new version (I believe that only Interface has changed) which forks a process to process the fonts.  You can't load a file until it's finished, but you can do other housekeeping things to your screen.

Dick

*start*
00731 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 11 May 84 10:12:25 PDT (Friday)
From: Lopez.pa
Subject: DSil Bug
To: Sweet
cc:  Lopez.pa

Geoff asked me to look at a bug that he found to see if I could characterize it and report it to you . The bug has to do with the amount of vertical tab associated with a carriage return when entering text . Currently , Dsil tabs by a value equal to the font height of the font being used . This is partially correct except that this will lead to having text strings that are off grid . What Alto Sil does is round the font height up to the current grid so that all strings remain on the grid . Let me know if you want to see a demo , or any other details .

Herb
*start*
02507 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 15 May 84 14:25:40 PDT (Tuesday)
Subject: DSil 10.0 now available for limited use
To: Hammer.es
cc: Dillon, Thompson, Sweet
From: Dillon.PA

Bruce,

There is an improved version of the Dandelion-based Sil program DSil. I have managed to test a few features and find no difficult problems. The files you will need are:
[Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>10.0>Tools>DSil.bcd
[Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>10.0>Tools>Helvetica7B.strike
[Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>10.0>Tools>Helvetica10N.strike
[Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>10.0>Tools>Fonts.widths
In addition, you will need a [SIL] section of your User.cm identical to the Alto version, as well as the matching .strike fonts. The two .strike fonts listed above are not available otherwise and so they are provided here. The Fonts.widths file is one that I generated which has Cande as well as Sil fonts and is badly needed if you intend to use both tools from the same workstation.

The user interface is supposed to be EXACTLY like SIL, but with a few additions. These additions are the DELETE, COPY, MOVE, and UNDO keys which duplicate ^D, ^C, ^X, and ^U in SIL (Shift-MOVE is not yet the same as Shift-^X). The other major addition is a "DSil Props" form subwindow which has many user feedback and control functions. These are far easier to control than in Alto Sil.

We are not yet supporting this program in the usual sense. However, if you have a reproducible bug, we welcome the report. In particular, if you find fatal bugs, we are interested in the test cases. Also, we are interested in ANY differences you notice from SIL (CAREFULLY examine SIL before reporting these. We have noticed several subtle "features" in SIL.). Our medium term plans are to wait for the impending release of Klamath and then release that version of DSil. Since the time frame for Klamath is still in doubt it is appropriate to pre-release a Sierra version "under the table" now.

We know of the following limitations:
  Hardcopy! will not handle pictures as complicated as Sil/h on an Alto (We will soon build a Sierra version of OldPrint.bcd which will fix this). Color hardcopy is not supported. There seems to be a very small residual hardcopy problem which cuts off text appearing in the last few positions rather than placing them at the bottom like sil does.
  The size of files created by DSil is not limited like those of SIL. Thus, one can create a DSil file not readable by SIL.
  Shaded boxes are not supported.

     -- John
*start*
02704 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 15 May 84 14:40:46 PDT (Tuesday)
Subject: Sierra DSil available
To: Kumar, Song, Oloumi, Knauss.es, UNguyen.es
cc: Dillon, Thompson, Sweet
From: Dillon.PA

Dick Sweet's latest version of DSil has been ported to Sierra. Those of you already using it need only retrieve DSil.bcd. For the rest:

There is an improved version of the Dandelion-based Sil program DSil. I have managed to test a few features and find no difficult problems. The files you will need are:
[Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>10.0>Tools>DSil.bcd
[Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>10.0>Tools>Helvetica7B.strike
[Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>10.0>Tools>Helvetica10N.strike
[Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>10.0>Tools>Fonts.widths
In addition, you will need a [SIL] section of your User.cm identical to the Alto version, as well as the matching .strike fonts (try [Iris]<AltoFonts>*.strike). The two .strike fonts listed above are not available otherwise and so they are provided here. The Fonts.widths file is one that I generated which has Cande as well as Sil fonts and is badly needed if you intend to use both tools from the same workstation.

The user interface is supposed to be EXACTLY like SIL, but with a few additions. These additions are the DELETE, COPY, MOVE, and UNDO keys which duplicate ^D, ^C, ^X, and ^U in SIL (Shift-MOVE is not yet the same as Shift-^X). The other major addition is a "DSil Props" form subwindow which has many user feedback and control functions. These are far easier to control than in Alto Sil.

We are not yet supporting this program in the usual sense. However, if you have a reproducible bug, we welcome the report. In particular, if you find fatal bugs, we are interested in the test cases. Also, we are interested in ANY differences you notice from SIL (CAREFULLY examine SIL before reporting these. We have noticed several subtle "features" in SIL.). Our medium term plans are to wait for the impending release of Klamath and then release that version of DSil. Since the time frame for Klamath is still in doubt it is appropriate to pre-release a Sierra version "under the table" now.

We know of the following limitations:
  Hardcopy! will not handle pictures as complicated as Sil/h on an Alto (it crashes, sorry) (We will soon build a Sierra version of OldPrint.bcd which will fix this). Color hardcopy is not supported. There seems to be a very small residual hardcopy problem which cuts off text appearing in the last few positions rather than placing them at the bottom like sil does.
  The size of files created by DSil is not limited like those of SIL. Thus, one can create a DSil file not readable by SIL.
  Shaded boxes are not supported.


     -- John
*start*
01835 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 15 May 84 21:39:57 PDT (Tuesday)
Subject: Re: DSil 10.0 now available for limited use
To: Hammer.ES
cc: Dillon, Thompson, Sweet
From: Dillon.PA

Bruce,

Caveat emptor.

The answer is yes to both questions. While we do not really expect to limit the use of this tool by putting the label "limited use" on it, we CAN refuse to talk to anyone until we are prepared to release it. We originally understood that you were interested only in testing DSil prior to its release.

In detail, while it is true that about 8 people here are starting to use DSil for production work, we are not by any means dependent upon it. We cross-check things as much as possible using Alto-based Sil, Analyze, and Route.

While we have discussed the question of Dandelion-based Analyze and Route at length, it is fair to say that there are no plans to do them now. We are trying to find time to do them. It is clear that the largest benefit would accrue from first converting Analyze.

     -- John

----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 15 May 84 18:52:00 PDT (Tuesday)
From: Hammer.ES
Subject: Re: DSil 10.0 now available for limited use
In-reply-to: Dillon.PA's message of 15 May 84 14:25:40 PDT (Tuesday)
To: Dillon.PA
cc: Hammer

John,

Thank you very much for the release of DSil. I noticed that you used the word "limited use" in your message. Does this mean that you would prefer that I not share it with others or does it mean that we should not depend on DSil for production work?

Also, are there any plans to convert the Sil related programs such as Analyze, Route, etc to run on a DLion?

Thanks again - I'll let you know if I find anything different from Sil.


-Bruce

----------------------------------------------------------------
*start*
00308 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 17 May 84 13:22:17 PDT (Thursday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: Re: SweetSil Bug/Feature
In-reply-to: Sweet's message of 17 May 84 10:48:30 PDT (Thursday)
To: Sweet
cc: Thompson, Dillon, Song

The new version fixes the bold 3 bug.

Dick
*start*
00514 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date:  9 May 84 10:40:52 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Song.PA
Subject: Font3Bug in SweetSil
To: Sweet
cc: Thompson, Dillon, Song

It's stored

Ibis SDD North IFS 1.38.1L, File server of February 14, 1984; 1 user out of 8
SBDrpack.press[ 8-May-84 16:18:06 PDT] to Song>songbord>SBDrpack.press [New File]...!1, 5120 bytes (31508 bits/sec)
SBDrpack.sil[ 8-May-84 16:09:33 PDT] to Song>songbord>SBDrpack.sil [New File]...!1, 4024 bytes (32192 bits/sec)

*start*
00948 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 12 May 84 16:01:05 PDT (Saturday)
Subject: Re: Newer, More improved...
In-reply-to: Sweet's message of 10 May 84 11:11:28 PDT (Thursday)
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Thompson
From: Dillon.PA

Dick,

I'm stuck: neither DSil.df nor [Igor]<Sweet> had DSilCommands.mesa in it.

By the way, you should add Supervisor.bcd, Event.bcd, and EventTypes.bcd to the appropriate USING lists in DSil.df:

Imports [Idun]<APilot>11.0>DF>PilotPublic.df Of >
    Using [Heap.bcd, Process.bcd, Runtime.bcd, Stream.bcd, System.bcd, 
       Supervisor.bcd, UserTerminal.bcd]

Imports [Idun]<APilot>11.0>DF>TajoPublic.df Of >
    Using [Atom.bcd, CmFile.bcd, Context.bcd, Cursor.bcd, Display.bcd, 
       Event.bcd, EventTypes.bcd, FormSW.bcd, Put.bcd, TIP.bcd, Token.bcd, 
       Tool.bcd, ToolFont.bcd, ToolWindow.bcd, UserInput.bcd, Version.bcd, 
       Window.bcd, WindowFont.bcd]


     -- John
*start*
00413 00071 UU 
@00045 01536 ftffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
@Date: 16 May 84 16:54:33 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: SweetSil Bug/Feature
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Song, Thompson

Dick-
Under the current defaults font 3 comes up in bold. That isn't okay. In particular it makes your tics funny when you are doing macros. If you don't know what you did it can take quite a while to debug.

Geoff
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@Date: 17 May 84 10:48:30 PDT (Thursday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: Re: SweetSil Bug/Feature
In-reply-to: Thompson's message of 16 May 84 16:54:33 PDT (Wednesday)
To: Thompson
cc: Sweet, Dillon, Song

For what it's worth, saying ^F 3 will do the right thing about bold.  When I put in the menu, I forgot to add a procedure to change the bold and italic default when the font changes.  A simple change, comming soon at your neighborhood server.

Dick
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@Date: 17 May 84 14:29:52 PDT (Thursday)
From: Song.PA
Subject: SweetSil Bug
To: Sweet
cc: Thompson, Dillon, Song

Dick,

I found another bug in SweetSil.
If I 'Add Text' the macro which is not defined and then delete it, system crashes.

Example:
	If I don't have anything in Font 4, and I try to get, let say, the 	Macro 'A' in Font 4, and then Press the DELETE key, the system crashes.
	
Thanks,

Frank. 
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@Date: 18 May 84 09:52:13 PDT (Friday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: Re: DSil Bug
In-reply-to: Song's message of 17 May 84 14:29:52 PDT (Thursday)
To: Song
cc: Sweet, Thompson, Dillon

The Font 4 backspace problem has been fixed.  Also, the old contents of the screen under the mark is fixed up on CR.

p.s. DSil is the sanctioned name of this program.
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@Date: 18 May 84 10:02:55 PDT (Friday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: Re: DSil Bug
In-reply-to: Sweet's message of 18 May 84 09:52:13 PDT (Friday)
To: Sweet
cc: Thompson, Dillon

Re:  p.s. DSil is the sanctioned name of this program.

Aw comeon let yourself put a little ego in.

Geoff
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@Date: 18 May 84 10:16:44 PDT (Friday)
From: Camacho.PA
Subject: DSil hardcopies
To: sweet
cc: , Camacho

I am using your DSil of 11-May-84 running on Klamath.  When attempting to make hardcopies, I get the message "No press package loaded".  I already loaded your file OldPrint.bcd which I understand has double the buffer space compared to the regular OldPrint.bcd.  Is there another file that I am supposed to load in order to make hardcopies?  Also, does the system still crash when you invoke the copy command?
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@Date: 18 May 84 10:34:11 PDT (Friday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: Re: DSil hardcopies
In-reply-to: Your message of 18 May 84 10:16:44 PDT (Friday)
To: Camacho
cc: sweet

If you have loaded OldPrint.bcd (either mine or the released one), you should not get the "No press package loaded" message.  Were you perhaps trying to make an Interpress master? For this you need to load Print.bcd.

re: "does the system still crash when you invoke the copy command?"  I didn't know that it ever did.  What system, copying what?

If you can reproduce the problem, I'll come look at it.

Dick
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@Date: 18 May 84 12:13:40 PDT (Friday)
From: Camacho.PA
Subject: Re: DSil hardcopies
In-reply-to: Your message of 18 May 84 10:34:11 PDT (Friday)
To: Sweet
cc: Camacho

My mistake. I thought I had OldPrint.bcd loaded but I guess I didn't.  The system didn't crash when invoking the copy command.  I meant to say when invoking the hardcopy! command.

Since I am using this tool daily, I have noticed a few minor buggs.  For example if you type text and immediately click the out! command to store the image, the last text typed is not saved.  Furthermore, if you type text and immediately do a kill!, the last text typed is not erased. If these comments are of value to you, I can start making a list of buggs as I notice them and then send it to you.

One last comment.  I was wandering if the ^R command to delete all font 4 macros could be generalized so that only selected items can be deleted (i.e. ^Rn, where n is the item you want deleted. ^R can still be the default).

Diego

P.S.  May I suggest that a DL be created (perhaps DSil^.pa) for people who want to be updated on the use of the tool.
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@Date: 21 May 84 11:42:46 PDT (Monday)
Subject: Accumulated DSil mods
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Thompson
From: Dillon.PA

Dick,

I have accumulated a few mods to my version of DSil and would like to insert them into your version. There are two kinds of things:
  Sierra/Klamath differences - I want to insert commented Sierra code
  Color - the colors are not right, Smoke and White are not implemented.

If you would arrange for [Igor]<Sweet>Hacks>11.0>Source>DSil> to contain your latest version of things, I will make the necessary mods and leave them on [Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>11.0>Source>DSil> for you.

     -- John
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@Date: 22 May 84 10:29:23 PDT (Tuesday)
Subject: DSil 11.0 mods complete
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon
From: Dillon.PA

Dick,

I modified

DSilCommands.mesa DSilInterface.mesa DSilIO.mesa DSilRep.mesa DSilStore.mesa

and put them on my new directory

[Iris]<Dillon>Hacks>11.0>Source>DSil>

They should be ready for compilation in Klamath.

     -- John
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@Date:  1 Jun 84 17:27:30 PDT (Friday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: SIL Passwords
To: Inouye
cc: Dillon, Thompson, Sweet

Steve-

Where are the sources for the current version of Sil. We'd like to take a look to see how it handles passwords.

geoff
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@Date:  1 Jun 84 17:35:58 PDT (Friday)
From: inouye.ES
Subject: Re: SIL Passwords
In-reply-to: Thompson.PA's message of 1 Jun 84 17:27:44 PDT (Friday)
To: Thompson.PA
cc: Inouye, Dillon.PA, Sweet.PA

Stored in [ISIS]<EDSOFT>Sil.dm
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@Date:  4 Jun 84 17:16:51 PDT (Monday)
From: Camacho.PA
Subject: DSil crash
To: sweet
cc: , Camacho

I have a sil file that makes DSil crash when trying to make a hardcopy.  The file is located at [Iris]<DDavies>Stichweld>GSW2Layout.sil... 
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@Date:  6 Jun 84 10:48:15 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: DSil Bug File too big (?) to HDCPY
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon

Dick-
I did try it and Diego is already in Klamath.
Yes it breaks and goes to the debugger and doesn't come back gracefully if you try to QUIT. (returns to DSil but the cursor locks up)

It seems to read it in okay. It was doing HARDCOPY when it broke.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Date:  6 Jun 84 09:08:51 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Sweet.PA
Subject: Big file
To: Thompson
cc: 

Try this in Klamath

----------------------------------------------------------------
Date:  4 Jun 84 17:16:51 PDT (Monday)
From: Camacho.PA
Subject: DSil crash
To: sweet
cc: , Camacho

I have a sil file that makes DSil crash when trying to make a hardcopy.  The file is located at [Iris]<DDavies>Stichweld>GSW2Layout.sil... 

----------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------
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@Date:  6 Jun 84 10:56:40 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: DSil Maintenance
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Bowers

Dick-

I just asked Frank Bowers if he was willing to be the maintainer. He said yes. Dillon wants to do it after he comes out from under the A chip. We need Roy Ogus' ok before Frank can take it on but it looks like the problem is solved.

Geoff
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@Date:  7 Jun 84 11:24:10 PDT (Thursday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: DSil Bug/Oversight
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Bowers, Thompson

Shift BS doesn't do word backspace per Alto Sil

Geoff
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@Date: 11 Jun 84 15:42:39 PDT (Monday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: DSil Bug
To: Sweet
cc: Bowers, Dillon, Thompson

Dick-

You said you thought the following was a bug (the "can't be acquired with correct "):

FTP of  7-Sep-83 10:59

Open Pup connection to isis
Directory edsil
Retrieve
Opening (Pup) connection to isis ... Done.
ISIS ED El Segundo IFS 1.38.1L, File server of February 14, 1984; 4 users out of 9
<EDSIL>CAS.lb8!20 to CAS.lb8 [Old File]CAS.lb8 can't be acquired with correct access.
<EDSIL>CAS.lb9!13 to CAS.lb9 [New File]...24140 bytes (4254 bits/sec)
<EDSIL>cas.lbu5!26 to cas.lbu5 [New File]...25258 bytes (4149 bits/sec)
<EDSIL>CAS.LBu7!22 to CAS.LBu7 [Old File]...26316 bytes (2533 bits/sec)
<EDSIL>cas.lbu9!18 to cas.lbu9 [New File]...21192 bytes (4521 bits/sec)
<EDSIL>cen.lbu9!1 to cen.lbu9 [New File]...5902 bytes (4178 bits/sec)
<EDSIL>ECL.lb7!2 to ECL.lb7 [Old File]ECL.lb7 can't be acquired with correct access.
<EDSIL>ECL.lb8!1 to ECL.lb8 [New File]...20994 bytes (5489 bits/sec)
<EDSIL>mcn.lb8!1 to mcn.lb8 [New File]...20736 bytes (3849 bits/sec)
<EDSIL>TTL.lb5!1 to TTL.lb5 [Old File]TTL.lb5 can't be acquired with correct access.
<EDSIL>TTL.lb6!1 to TTL.lb6 [Old File]TTL.lb6 can't be acquired with correct access.
Closing connection to isis ... Done.
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@Date: 11 Jun 84 15:44:09 PDT (Monday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: DSil Maintainer
To: Sweet
cc: Dillon, Ogus, Bowers, Thompson

Roy said it was okay for Frank to do it as long as the job stays small.
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@Date: 11 Jun 84 16:09:29 PDT (Monday)
From: Thompson.PA
Subject: DSil Bug Report
To: Sweet
cc: Bowers, Dillon, Thompson

It doesn't update instances of the macro after you have edited the macro or updated it via merge/filein. I think we discussed this the other day. If you delete it and replace it it does the right thing though